Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Now today, we're going to take a brief look at the mystery of the most totally Trinity. But before we do that, we need to stop and take a moment to make sure that we don't get misled by our imaginations. We're going to spend a few moments discussing at a really basic and simplified level. The difference between images in our imaginations and ideas in our intellect, the difference between being able to picture something in your mind, you've been able to understand something it's really important. Otherwise it's easy to get misled. Obviously we all know we're composite creatures. We have a body in our soul. Everybody knows that you don't. What made me tell you that? Because we have a body, we have senses our senses, sight, smell, touch, taste, and so forth. These things gather sensory information from the world around us. And then it comes together, allows us to make contact with our surroundings.
Speaker 0 00:00:53 Obviously, I can see this a pulpit right here made out of wooden metal, but that sensory image comes together and produces an image in our mind. This is a pulpit or that's a wall. That's a picture of the sacred heart and so forth. We get these images in our mind and I'm going to skip it all this for you. A domestic philosophers, the place of images, the place where these pits cheers that we make in her mind that are based on the sensory information that we get from outside, the place where those images remain or where those images are, is the imagination. Okay. It's important for us to realize that our imagination makes pictures of machines, serial things, material, things like this, pulpit like the wall, like an orange, like an Apple like blue moons or pink, elephants or so forth. They're changeable material representations of things that we find in our imaginations.
Speaker 0 00:01:44 That's our imaginations do very important. Since we have bodies that allow us to kind of check with the world. But remember our imaginations make pictures of material, things, apples, this pulpit pink, often it's blue moons, they're changeable material representations of things. And they're found in the imagination. The place of images is in our imagination. Let's contrast that with ideas, ideas, I'll just use a couple examples like justice or love or truth. They're unchanging their spiritual concepts. And with regards to our mind, they're found in the intellect. The place of ideas is the intellect. So ideas, something like justice, love or truth. Those are fond and the intellect they're spiritual concepts fond the inlet. Now I don't want to go into entails, but our, our intellect uses imagination to be in contact with the world. So you have an image of an Apple and it shakes that loose and knows what Apple this is for.
Speaker 0 00:02:39 I don't want to go into all these details, but there's a connection. But just to that, what does all this have to do with Holy Trinity? Sunday? It's easy. Our imagination makes pictures. That's what it does. It makes pictures of material, things they were designed to do that. That's what they do. There's nothing wrong with that. They can't help it. That's what our imaginations do. They make. Here's the problem today. We're going to be talking about a purely spiritual thing. The most purely spiritual we're talking about the most blessed at Trinity, a purely spiritual reality. The most Holy Trinity, we got to make, keep in mind that any image we make, Oh, the most Holy Trinity is already wrong. The Holy Trinity is not material object. We're going to make pictures. You can't help making pictures. That's what your imagination does, but don't let the pitcher confuse you with your understanding, which is an intellect.
Speaker 0 00:03:32 Anybody that's had. Geometry has already struggled to remember when he had geometry. You're a kid and you try to learn what a geometric point is. It doesn't matter how sharp you make your pet's on. Keep making a dot, no matter how small that dot gets, that's still not a geometric point. Cause a geometric point is something that doesn't have any spread and space, right? We can understand it. But every picture we make of a geometric point is always wrong. And we can't help making a picture of a geometric point. But after a while, we get used to the idea knowing, okay, my pitch sure is wrong, but I still know what a geometric point is. So no matter how finally we sharpen that pencil, the geometric point can't be drawn, but it can be understood. The geometric point, the pitcher we have of that black dot that's in the imagination, the understanding it's an intellect, okay?
Speaker 0 00:04:19 We're going to make pictures as we talk today, you can't help that, but don't let that picture mislead you. It's essential. It's really easy to go off the rails, thinking about the bus, Holy Trinity, by making pictures, you know, triangles and stuff like this, there's nothing wrong if that's a symbol, but the most Holy Trinity is not a triangle, not a Shamrock. You know, those are good. Those are pictures, but that's all they are. We don't want to be at that level. That was all along a prelude. That's all precaution. So whatever we're going to say, that's just precautionary. All right. Let's turn to the topic at hand. Now in the time we have for a sermon, it's extremely difficult to say, okay, anything meaningful about the most, totally Trinity without falling into some heresy. Okay. So today we're going to fall Sante. Guston's explanation of the mystery.
Speaker 0 00:05:06 Most Holy Trinity, and I'm going to lean really. We really hardly on Frank sheet to do that. We're going to try to pack an explanation of the central mystery of our faith, the central mystery of faith into 15 minutes. And considering the fact that we're talking about the infinite being, considering the fact that we're talking about something that takes a whole course, a semester course at seminary, just to hammer down the basic terminology. Obviously we're just skimming very lightly over the surface. Okay? This is not going to be really in depth and we're not going to be heretical, uh, play. Okay. Today there's three terms in order to start, we're talking about that. We need to get a handle on the three terms are mystery, nature and person. We need to understand mystery, nature and person. So mystery. When we say something is a mystery of the faith, what do we mean?
Speaker 0 00:05:55 Well, it's, it's easy to see if we start with what we don't mean. We don't mean, well, that's an issue without a clue. We just don't know anything about it. It's not like that. You know, a lot of times when people say it's a mystery that it's as if it's pointless to think about, we can't know about it. We just don't have a clue. Obviously, God doesn't decide to reveal something to us that he doesn't want us to think about. This is the central mystery of our religion. But what is it? If, if it's a mystery and he wants us to think about it, then it doesn't mean, Oh, well, mystery. Just, let's not think about it. A mystery. The faith is something that God wants us to think about. So when we use the term mystery, we're talking about mysteries of faith, a mystery, something God wants us to think about, or he wouldn't have told us about it.
Speaker 0 00:06:37 He wants us to think about it. But the point is it has to do with something that we can never fully understand. We can never fully understand it. The point is we can keep thinking and thinking about a mystery, like the most totally Trinity, and keep penetrating deeper and deeper into this mystery. Keep on getting more and more insights, making more connections, seeing, seeing more and more light about the whole situation. But even if we think about it for all eternity and please God, we all will be able to cause the other option is not very good. We'll still, we'll never be able to fully grasp it. Even alter why? Because here we are, we have these little finite intellects and we're thinking about the infinite being. We can't surround that and grasp it. It's not possible. So mystery is something that we can, that we're supposed to think about that we're supposed to try to wrestle with to understand, but that we can never fully understand.
Speaker 0 00:07:33 So it's just a question of humility to realize I don't have it all sussed up, even if I've thought about it for all eternity. Okay. It's a mystery of our faith is a truth. It's an inexhaustible truth we can think about forever and keep understanding more and more and never get all the details. So that's mystery nature. Okay. Imagine we're staying out in a cabin in the woods. In the middle of the night, we hear a loud crashing noise. We wonder what is that? Is that a cruisey bear said a mountain line? What is that out there? What is that? When we ask a question, like what is that? We're asking a question about nature. A nature is a philosophical term. It means the wetness of something. That's what a nature is. What is, is something fish have a fish nature. They act a certain way.
Speaker 0 00:08:22 They swim and breathe. Water birds have bird nature. They have warm blooded. They have feathers, lay eggs and so forth. Men have human nature. We have a body and a spiritual soul. We can walk and talk and laugh and think in ordinary language, nature answers the question, is it? Or what can it do? So in ordinary language, nature answers the question. What is it? And what can it do? So determines what it is and what something can do. That's nature person. Now imagine we're on that cabin in the woods. And we hear this noise at the door. We don't go. What is that? Is that a grizzly bear? Bear? Is that a mountain lion? We say who's that? We already know what it is. It's someone at the door. That's why horror movies. He opened up and there's no in there. And they have that goofy organ music.
Speaker 0 00:09:11 Cause you'd be scared. Cause everybody knows what splits to be there. It's supposed to be start. And then they're not there. See, Oh, we're dealing with a nature that I wasn't expecting. When we hear a knock at the door, we go, who's there. Who we already know what it is. We know that somebody's coming to see us and he's knocking. We know it's a human being. So we go, who's there. Who is that? Who's knocking at the door. We already know it's someone that has a human nature. So we already know what nature we're dealing with. When we ask the question who we're asking a question, person, nature, determines what something is and what it can do. But a person that's, who's acting that's who's doing this particular thing. Okay? Nature answers. What it is, what it can do a person is who is doing it during this particular thing.
Speaker 0 00:09:53 Take example. Okay. We all, everyone here has human nature except of course the angels, but all of us here, we all have a human nature. Okay? We're all different person. So had, who am I? I'm father X. What am I doing here? You know, my abilities are determined by my nature, but I'm speaking. My nature is not speaking. I am speaking. Your nature is not sitting there. And hopefully listening, you are listening your nature because, because you have a human nature, you're capable of listening to things. You're capable of speaking. You're capable thing. But you're the person doing the PR the who? That's the question, the person, your nature to give it to you. It's sort of your performance characteristics, what you can do, but the person is the principle that's operating there. Right? Okay. I'm talking your sitting. Okay? Your breathing, your nature. Isn't breathing, your breathing, your listening, your nature.
Speaker 0 00:10:42 Isn't listening. Okay. Speaking, thinking, laughing, all these things are possible because we have human nature. But our nature doesn't do that. We do them. One of them, they're more important point. We don't ask who is that? When we see a strange new vegetable, we're in the produce section, who is that? We say, what is that? Why don't we say, who is that with a vegetable vegetables, persons, neither are minerals or animals. Okay. There's three kinds of persons. There's divine persons. God, the father, son, Holy spirit. There's angelic persons. They kind of come in two flavors, good and bad. And there's human persons. Those are three kinds of person persons can know and love. Rutabagas, just sit there. They're not, you know, sort of rocks. They are not person. So they have a nature, but they're not persons persons can know and love. There's only three kinds of persons.
Speaker 0 00:11:31 There are only three beings that have a rational nature. Okay. That's men angels. And of course, God, so nature tells us what is it? What can it do? And person tells it. Who is it? Who's actually doing it. Okay. One more time. Nature tells us what is it? What can it do? And person tells us who is it? Who's actually doing it. Alright. One time the mystery is an inexhaustible truth that we can never completely understand, but we can keep drawing out more and more as we kind of played it. All right. Remember finally too, that God is an infinite spirit. So that any picture that you're about to make the most, Holy Trinity is automatically wrong. You can't help making the mental pictures. That's what your imagination does. It does a good job, but don't be misled by the picture. Just remember that the picture's wrong and penetrate through that with your understanding. All right, now let's get started. God's knowledge and his love are infinite. So if God's knowledge is infinite, what does he think about? And if his love is infinite, whom does he love?
Speaker 1 00:12:48 What does God think about?
Speaker 0 00:12:51 God has an idea, but it's only one idea. God only has one idea. He already knows everything. He hasn't forgotten anything. He's got. He only has one idea. That idea can never change.
Speaker 0 00:13:16 It's an eternal unchanging idea. Since it's not possible for him to learn anything, it's not possible for him to forget anything. God is infinite. Infinite is just a word, which means no limits. He's no limit. So that means that he's only the only one infinite being there is, or that ever can be there. Can't be two limitless beings. One would be a limit on the other. If you don't get that right now, take it for granted. Don't go down that trail of stay with us right now. It's important. Okay. All right. God is infinite. He has an infinite intellect. Now the only thing that an infinite mind could ever find that would be worth thinking about would be the infinite being, what does this mean? It means that the idea that God has in his infinite mind is the idea he has of himself. And it can't change.
Speaker 0 00:14:15 His idea is as eternal as he is. He didn't suddenly think of it. So he has this infinite idea. It's a perfect idea of himself. It can't change. And his idea is as eternal as he is now. Here's another extraordinary thing. The idea that God has of himself must be absolutely perfect. Why? Because he already knows everything. That means that whatever is in God must also be in his idea of himself. Whatever's in God must also be in his idea of himself. Whatever is God's idea of himself must be absolutely an exactly the same as it is in himself. Otherwise he would not have a clear idea of himself and that's ridiculous because he's God and he knows everything. Okay? So whatever's in God must be in his idea of himself. And it must be exactly the same in his idea as it is in himself.
Speaker 0 00:15:20 Otherwise God would not know everything about himself. That's crazy to think that he wouldn't, that's so much different than our idea, our kind of ideas, rather, that it's impossible to imagine. That's just a weakness of our imagination. It's impossible to imagine, but it's not impossible to understand. Not gets you more interesting. Any idea we might have is a thing or ideas or things. Our idea of a truth is a thing or idea of justice is a thing, but this is not true with God. Why not? Well, since whatever is in God must be in his idea of himself and sits. It must be exactly the same in his idea as it is in himself. That means it says God can know and love. Well, then his idea can know and love since God can know and love his idea can know and love. In other words, his idea is not a thing.
Speaker 0 00:16:25 Things cannot know in love. Persons can know in love. His idea is a person. Now there's more an idea isn't just off floating off in space. Similar is it ideas just don't drift long. We don't come with the idea. And then it just starts floats long except in the cartoons ideas, a thought is in the mind of a thinker. So this one idea of God has to be in the same identical nature as the thinker. Doesn't it? Of course. So God's idea of himself as a person, but it's also in the same nature. God can seize within his own infinite nature. A perfect infinite idea, which because is an idea is completely within his nature. And because it is a perfect idea of himself completely contains his nature. And his idea God's idea of himself is an eternal unchanging idea. This idea is the eternal unchanging word. The thinker is the first person, the most blessed Trinity, the father and the idea, the word is the second person, the most blessed Trinity, the son. So what does God think about? He thinks about himself.
Speaker 0 00:17:54 All right. So God thinks about himself, but whom does he love? When we have a beautiful idea, we can admire it. We can dwell on it. We can even love, love it, but still it's only an idea. It's a thing. We can love our ideas, but our ideas can return. Our love can they, as we've seen God's idea of himself, the eternal word is not some thing, but someone is idea is a person. Second person, the most blessed at Trinity just as God is absolutely an infantry perfect and worthy of all love. So also his ideas absolutely infinitely perfect and worthy of all love. And so the thinker, the father and the word, the son love each other with a perfect and infinite love. Each person pours himself totally towards the other, holding nothing back. And this love that the father and his son have for each other is eternal unchanging.
Speaker 0 00:19:02 Infinite has every perfection that they do is a person, is someone, the third person or the most totally Trinity. And of course the love that the father and the son have for one another totally fills their whole nature, producing the third person from all eternity. But again, this person, this is a play on the same divine nature. So the second person, the word, the son proceeds from the father and his underrated by way of the intellect and the third person, the Holy spirit proceeds from the father and the son by way of the will. One divine nature totally expressed as thinker, totally expressed as word, totally expressed as love three divine persons, one divine nature. What are you a question about nature? God, who are you a question about person, father, son, Holy spirit. We're three distinct persons, but not three separate persons, three distinct persons, but not three separate persons.
Speaker 0 00:20:19 Okay. These three persons do not share the divine nature. They do not share the divine nature. Each one possesses totally. The father possesses it. Totally. The son possesses it. Totally the Holy spirit possesses it. Totally. All right. Let's review. Since God is infinite spirit, any pitcher you make the most toy, Trinity will be wrong. You can't help make you mental pictures. That's your imagination does, but we don't want to be misled there. That picture is wrong. A mystery is an inexhaustible truth, which we can never completely understand, but we can keep drawing more and more out of as we contemplate it, nature tells us what is it? What can it do? Person tells us who is it? Who's actually doing it. Okay. God's idea of himself. The eternal word is a person just as God has absolutely an infinitely perfect and worthy of all love.
Speaker 0 00:21:18 So also as ideas, absolutely an infinitely. Perfect. And we're the, of all love and still the father and his idea, the word the son love each other with a perfect and infinite love. Each person pours himself up totally towards the other, holding nothing back. And this love that the father's son have for each other as an eternal unchanging infinite person, the Holy spirit, the third person, the most blessed Trinity, the second person, the word, the son proceeds from the father and is generated by way of the intellect and the third person, the Holy spirit proceeds from the father minute son, by way of the will. God is three distinct divine persons, but not three separate persons. And these three divine persons do not share the divine nature. Each person possesses it. Totally. The father possesses it. Totally. The son possesses it. Totally the Holy spirit possessed it totally for things to do.
Speaker 0 00:22:20 Pray for the light to come to a deeper understanding, not a better image, but a deeper energy standing of this mystery too. Pondered the words and the nice scene CRE she bought to sing three ponder the words in the preface of today's mass and for ponder the words and the affirmation creed. Let's close with a passage from the fourth ladder and council 12, 15 quote. We firmly believe and simply confess that there is only one true God, eternal and immeasurable almighty unchangeable, incomprehensible, and ineffable father, son, and Holy spirit, three persons, but one absolutely simple essence substance or nature. The father is from none. The son from the father alone and the Holy spirit from both equally eternally without beginning or end the father generating the son being born and the Holy spirit proceeding concept statute on co-equal Coen, omnipotent and cold. We're in a state of grace. All this is going on in the depths of our soul.
