Coffee with Father 2 – Humility, Providence & Suffering

Speaker 0 00:00:00 In regards to some questions, uh, first off, yes, it can, you can record this <laugh> and, and I can't give you permission to distribute it. So I don't care if people record anything I say, unless it was in the confessional. So that's, that's just fine to me. So I should, uh, say this. So it's, so it's, it's on the recording now that I'm being recorded is, um, I was asked some questions about suffering, how to understand the sufferings. The Lord allows let's. This is gonna be a long answer in general. I I'll just I'll I'll start by saying something. There's a, a book called, why must I suffer by father Remer? You can read the, the book it's from Laredo, press. Why must I suffer? And it'll have a lot of things that I'm not gonna say <laugh>, but it's a great book. Uh, in Kansas city, we gave it away to, you know, so every family got, got a copy of it because I think it's a great book. Speaker 0 00:00:54 So, and there's a lot of details cuz he goes through different reasons and it it's, I think it's probably a hundred years old or it's been in print off and on for a hundred years. And with good reason, I'm really grateful of Laredo for bringing it out. I recommend it completely. But uh, if people really understood suffering at a deeper level, they'd be a lot, it's a lot easier to suffer. Like I've never had to really sit there and counsel a pregnant woman that this is gonna hurt when they give birth. They know that they understand that and, and then they just see that's part of it, you know? And they can get through that. Um, I mean it's obviously there's medical things that can be done to help 'em but they just understand that that's it. And it's the same kind of idea once people understand what's actually going on with suffering it at least Catholics and they should, but uh, it makes it, it change. Speaker 0 00:01:46 It transforms the whole thing. I would say it doesn't mean it doesn't, it isn't suffering cuz of course it is. But so we'll talk about that, but I, you know, the way I am, I'm just gonna bla and bla. And so we'll see where, where we go with this. But I have notes in my Bible. This is one of my many Bibles and every one of 'em is stacked full of notes and different things. And uh, you know, I kind of grab what I have so that this, I have some notes, but uh, you know, the quick answer offered up, but why and what does that mean and so forth. But the question of suffering is gigantic and that is the question. A lot of people, the real objection to, uh, to religion, it revolves their own suffering. They call it the question you would, if God was good, why would they be suffering all that? Speaker 0 00:02:30 So this is a, a gigantic question, cuz mankind's expectations are, are not accurate. I'll do what I can to cover that, to answer this question before we go onto the, before we talk about the other ones. But um, you know, so if we're gonna have a approach, an intelligent way, we need to back back up and look at how, where it came from. And I think what we'll do is we'll talk about, uh, we'll we can talk about, uh, the fall and the results for individual and the fall results for society. And then, and after I think then we can put that with perspective, bring our Lord into the picture. Not that he's out of the picture and then we can start talking about, uh, how these things apply to us. So, uh, there's gonna be a lot to say there's a lot more than I could say, but uh, you know, we'll just start with that. Speaker 0 00:03:23 So I'm gonna probably over simplify things, but that's how it is on one of these kind of things. So everything starts with, uh, Adam, in fact, that's why there's such an orchestrated attack against, uh, against Adam for the past 150 years or so he's a feast day. He's feast on December 24th, St. Anna Eve where all the Santa from and his wife Eve the, the Greek side of the church is more, you know, is more clear about that. But we are, you can look in the Roman Margy for this day. And, and on December 24th, the mystery plays in, in has been in, in Germany and in the middle ages were done in the churches and all that. And so the mystery play and, and the mystery plays when they had, uh, the Christmas time of the year, that time of the year, they had the garden to eat the fall and all that. Speaker 0 00:04:07 And so they had the trees and the garden and all that. That's what a Christmas tree comes from. So this that's Christmas trees come from the mystery trees and, and they had little things that symbolized hosts on it, but you can, I'm not gonna go into that or I'm gonna start talking about the mystery plays in Adam, but it goes back to Adam. So when mad and Eve were created, nature was unfall and orderly animals, obeyed man, a man's lower powers were subject to his higher powers and man himself is perfectly subject to God. And so everything's perfectly ordered, and those are the good old days. And everybody kind of remembers the good old days in some weird way, you know, every culture hearkens back to it, the fact that it was all ended on this day, they were created, I think is kind of ironic, but we, that we have some kind of prime, evil memory of this, or some you or tradition. Speaker 0 00:04:53 So everybody kind of looks back for this golden age and, and that was before the fall. So anyway, Gary Gule Grandhi is the last great tic theologian died in 64 B talks about this original state, it's called the state of original justice. And you can think of a triple harmony. There's a harmony between God and the soul. Um, since God is, uh, God, the soul has created to, to obtain eternal life by knowing and loving serving God, you know, there's a perfect harmony between the soul and the body the body's made to serve the soul and the PA. So that means the passions were totally under the control of right reason. Um, and it's lightened by the faith and, uh, the direction the will was strengthened by charity and the body was not subject, uh, to injuries or sickness or death. So it was, it was all perfectly ordered. If Adam wanted to be mad, he'd look over there. He'd be just as mad as would be called for was the reasonable. Then it'd be done, totally done, you know, et cetera. Everything's perfectly ordered. There's perfect harmony between the body and the rest of nature. Animals are docile. They're obedient, uh, Speaker 1 00:05:56 Earth brings fork crops without any hard labor. And since we're all farm people here, we know, you know how different this is between do animals that are not docile. And then, uh, you know, and, uh, and farm work. So there's this triple harmony in the state original justice. And you can, and I just picture three little squares, put God, you know, God on the top of one square and Adam on the bottom of that square. So God over Adam, then the soul over the passions, which is substitute these passions for the whole body and the body over nature. Okay. So God over Adam, the soul over the passions, the body over the rest of nature. So that's, that's a harmony, there's a perfect harmony. God is over Adam. The soul is over the body or the passions, you know, the body, the body's over all nature. Speaker 1 00:06:46 So, okay. So there's the disaster of original sin. It, it comes in here now, before we go on into that, I wanna make a remark because it's very common with PIs people. I called the Steubenville error. I'm really grateful to Steubenville and the great, uh, biblical scholarship that's come out of there. But there's an error that, that, that I think really, and Catholic circles has been promulgated out of there. And it's just too bad because these people do great work. And I, so I'm not hacking, but I'm hacking it there. And that's that somehow the fall could have something to do with the passions or, or like Adams Adam fell because he let the devil into the garden, you know? And that's the worst part. There there's other things that are implied in some of the stuff they say, but so he, he let the devil in the garden. Speaker 1 00:07:32 So he sin first, cuz he wasn't protecting his bride Eve, but that's absolutely wrong. So what, what you do, what you get the whole order wrong because Eve fell and then Adam and we fell when Adam fell. So Adam didn't fall, then Eve fell and then Adam fell again. I mean, it doesn't make any, it doesn't work like that. Eve fell. Then Adam say Paul writes about, but I mean that's how it's and it had nothing to do with the passions. It had nothing to do with that at all. So what really happened and I have this in my Bible and coordinates the lap today. The serpent told a series of lies. You shall not die. Your eyes shall be open. You should be as God's. You shall no good and evil. Each one of those are lies. So Eve sin, she committed five sins. Speaker 1 00:08:13 So here's corn saity setting St. Ambrose sin, Ignatius, Antioch St. John Chris system in St. Augusta cornea ity in the first place Eve followed later by Adam committed the sin of pride. Undoubtedly, when even Adam heard you shall be, as God's knowing good and evil, they were tempted to gaze an admiration at the growth and praise of their own excellence and therefore turned towards themselves. They swelled up with pride. So their hearts drew back from God and then it last, they desired omniscience and, and a certain kind of equality with God as was with the case with Lucifer, from the sin of pride immediately followed impatience and indignation of soul being restricted and being, but from prohibited. And then he goes through the sin of curiosity, then the sin of glut and then an air in this in understanding for both Eve as well as Adam, believe the words serpent prosing omniscience. Speaker 1 00:09:02 And imortality if the eighth from the forbidden tree and this led it last to perfect disobedience in transgression of the commandment. Now Eve committed five sins, Adam commits eight sins pride first place, second excessive desire to please his wife. Third sin of curiosity, fourth sin of in unbelief as if God had only figuratively spoken of death, then absolutely threatening him. Fifth is sin of presumption as if the, this would only be a small potatoes to do this sixth, the sin ofany seventh of sin of disobedience. Eighth was a sin of making excuses. You know, when he says, oh, the woman he made for me, you know, um, and then he poses the question. If you ask who sin more grievously, Adam Reve St. Thomas responds that if the sin is considered in itself, Eve sin more grievously because both, both because she sinned first and also because she induced Adam to sin and therefore shero not only self and him, but all also all us. Speaker 1 00:09:54 But if the circumstances, the person are considered Adam sin more grievously, both because he was more perfect and more prudent than Eve. And also because Adam had received the commandment directly from God, whereas Eve it'll receive only through Adam. So that's the fall. And if you wanna read some, uh, St fro of Syria has a wonderful commentary on Genesis where he writes, he, he writes in detail about it. Very, very interesting. But anyway, so that's the fall and I've just given a little more details than maybe using, because it's denied on the one hand and then it's confused on the other. And this is so common for him to think that Adam fell first by letting the devil in, you know, and he was afraid he was afraid to suffer for. He was afraid. He wasn't afraid cuz his passions are perfectly ordered to his soul. Speaker 1 00:10:35 Do you see, he couldn't have, that's not that that wasn't something that could happen like that and, and, and fall like that. So anyway, consequences and he's, you know, he can't get hurt and he is imortal unless he sins, you know? So anyway, so the consequences, well now we're in the state of fallen nature. Um, so they were in the state of, uh, original justice. That's how our, our parents were created now the state of fallen nature. And then there's the state of restored nature. We'll talk about that later, but uh, okay. So original sin Des destroy destroys the state of original justice. And so now human nature's left to so's devices. It lacks the grace, it's the Santa, the graces and, and the gifts aren't by our own natural power, then heaven is completely outta reach. And this is important to realize there's no way to get to heaven. Speaker 1 00:11:25 This is gonna be important later on when we're talking about suffering and when our Lord comes, cuz heaven is outta reach and then heaven is so you can't get there by own powers and it's completely slam shut tall, man. Thank you very much, Adam. And then the sense of sin fall of nature is a sinful condition. It's more difficult for man to do good and avoid evil than if he'd never been in the state of grace. So it's more difficult to do good and avoid evil. Thank you very much. So there's this triple harmony and original sin destroys it. So God lets the punishment fit the crime. If you remember God over Adam. So over passions, the body of rest. So God told Adam obey, but Adam rebelled against God. He said no. So San, he loses satifying grace in the gifts, including the gift of integrity, which holds this whole harmony together. Speaker 1 00:12:10 So Adam rebels against God. Now we have our passions are revealing against right reason, which we all experience. And we have nature revealing against us and we're all country people, you know, farm and ranch work is work. <laugh>, that's just one of the many things, you know, but uh, so we have Adam against God passions against right reason, uh, and nature against the body. And uh, so supernatural problems, uh, supernatural life can only come from God and Adam's just committed supernatural suicide. So is he they're, they're not in the state of grace anymore. And so what they've done is, is they've actually chosen sides in this war that the devil has struck in heaven. And so they've taken sides, they've enlisted an army of the devil. That's actually what has happened there. And that's, they did it for all of us. And people say, well, that's not fair. Speaker 1 00:13:03 Well, I mean, it might not be fair that we're, every time you turn around, we have America has award with somebody. You know, you it's the war of the day. You can't keep track all the places we blow up. And uh, nobody asked me, nobody asked you, they just do it. Those are our leaders. And uh, so we're in all these wars that we didn't have anything to do with it's, it's a similar thing. So we lose not just the bondage to Satan, but he loses the gifts of integrity, which is this harmony will come back to that. And he losing the gift of, of impassability, which, which means he can suffer and be sick and he has to work hard and he loses the gift of imortality, which means he's gonna die. His body is gonna be separated from his soul. None of which was willed in the beginning, integrity, the less, a loss of gift of integrity, leaves man's powers and their natural condition that Harmony's gone. Speaker 1 00:13:57 And the NA that means our natural condition is disharmony. Okay. So those, these are were wounded and we're very wounded. So we have problems in our intellect, in our will in intellect, we have the wound of ignorance. So our intellect has been darkened. You know, Adams is super genius, but I don't want to, we're talking about suffering and I could go on, on and on about Adam. I'm just gonna, I'm trying to hit high points. But anyway, from then on, it takes effort to learn and understand the truth. It, it takes effort. It would've been effortless before his will the will, the wound of malice, the Will's been weakened and now we suffer weakness in the face of evil and the passions. We have two wounds, the wo. So there's, there's a, uh, so you got the wound of malice and the will and the wound and, and the passions. Speaker 1 00:14:44 You have the wound of weakness. It's hard to actually struggle for the good. And then we have the Roman of conent and, uh, that's a, a $3 world. That means the rebellion of the sense appetites, like our passions and our emotions against right reason. And so they drag us around and, uh, if we don't, we're not careful we can be led by our passions and our appetites. In fact, that is the American way of life. That's what advertising is all about. I've done conferences on it that you can listen to, cuz thankfully people have 'em up online, even though I can't give permission, they're already there. And uh, and I'm really glad they're there because you can listen in detail. But if we don't, if we don't lead our passions, then they'll lead us. And that means to lead us down. Okay. So it inclines us very strongly to sin when we're led by our passions or emotions instead by right reason, then we're being unreasonable to the degree that we're actually led by our passions to that very degree, we're acting like animals except animals can't act below our nature. Speaker 1 00:15:50 And we can't so advertising this country is all set up to take advantage of the wound of conent. There's no such thing as a serial advertisement that says this serial is the most reasonable thing to give your children. It's exactly. Blah, blah, blah. No, it's all about, you know, cuz if they're being honest, they say little Junior's gonna be Rick ricocheting off the wall. His sugar levels are gonna be too high. He's you know, he's, it's gonna RO his teeth, blah. No they're yeah. Who, isn't this gonna be fun if we eat this, you know, and temps it and the kid pitches a fit in the cereal aisle mom gives in, you know, cuz nobody can spank their kids anymore. And uh, because their passions aren't aligned, you know, the whole thing. So this is it. So St. Thomas teaches before the fall, not only need grace for eternal life, but we need grace for eternal life and to remit our sins and to support our weaknesses. Speaker 1 00:16:37 So we need it all over the place in fall in nature. We naturally wanna please ourselves, even at the expense of others and against the rule of reason, men are naturally selfish and everybody, all you have to do for that is just look at any child until he is tuned up and on nowadays, a lot of the children are not tuned up. Even the people that are, that are, you know, really trying to go to mass and doing that stuff. They absolutely don't tune up their children. That's where we're at. So we're suffering. We're, we're suffering from that. So we're damaged goods. We naturally trail to tend towards self. We tend to, to seek our own personal desires without thinking about the common good about God. And we're a mess. You can't fix that without grace. And then you put actual sin into it and we've got really, we really start having problems and that's reality. Speaker 1 00:17:24 So we have to start there. That is reality. And this is where people do not start like just as an American we're Catholics, but living in America, there's some weird thought I'm I'm gonna oversimplify it. And this isn't being completely fair. But if we just put a ballot box out there and everybody votes, isn't it gonna be great because this is just the kingdom, you know, it's the city set on a hill and it's the greatest government possible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know? And uh, you just can't believe it. And all you have to do is say, is it really, are we producing virtuous people? Is this really the path to heaven? Is this the way to go in so many ways you programmed that when you say that people's default cities, I must hate America. No, I love America, but I don't love what we are. Speaker 1 00:18:04 And I don't love, I don't love how our people behave. I don't love how our government is. You know, I want people to go to heaven. I could care less. You know, if they have 32 flavors of ice cream, I want 'em to get to heaven. And uh, this is not a good place to get to heaven from. It's not the worst place in the world, but it it's, you know, it's, I'd say it's one of the suburbs of hell right now so that, you know, you could do worse, but we're we're down there and that's because we don't even think of it. We don't admit there's such a thing as original sin. We can't even look at it. We, we, the spiritual doesn't admit is, is not allowed in American discourse, virtue getting to have God, you know, they can hold up a Bible and say something about God, but better not really apply to anything or else its some guy that we haven't heard of, you know, that approves to things like Massa her and your babies. Speaker 1 00:18:49 I mean, I don't, you know, so this is America, so I'm gonna totally shift gears here. And uh, so that's the raw material we're starting with. Uh, so that's our, our position. Now I wanna shift gears near here and I wanna give credit to father Edward lean a, a great spiritual writer of about a hundred years ago, roughly he's got any number of books that are really worth reading, but I, I wanna, there's some reflections here. I wanna talk about humility and, and like, where are we going with this? You'll see, but I wanna talk about humility cuz humility is, is, this is a foundational virtue. We're talked about how we got mess and logistic catastrophe. What's the solution. Well, I wanna start by talking about humility and we'll go from there, but it's a virtue that's derived from this profound reverence towards God, cuz we recognize him as God. Speaker 1 00:19:43 So we see our, our position and his position and we want to conduct ourselves accordingly. So humility is really seeing the truth and acting in the truth. That's what humility is. So, uh, as a, as a position to this, sometimes people think humility is saying, oh I'm not really low. You know, and walking around and just saying bad things about yourself on weird exercises like that as if so you have somebody, here's a guy that's really a great pitch. And you say really great picture. Well and he says, no, I'm not well, that's false humility. If he's a great pitcher, he should say, yeah, give the glory to God. I am a great picture. What that's God gave me that ability. That's humility because he's, that's the truth. If he's really a great pitcher to say, you're not a great picture. Well like everybody knows you are, what do you, you're not fooling anybody. Speaker 1 00:20:30 And this is not a pious. It's not humble. Do you see what I mean? So hum humility is not denying our gifts, but it's not denying our faults. It's like, this is who we are in that sense. So we're not claiming anything above our due and we're not claiming anything below what's due to God from the things that he's given us cuz anything good. The only thing we can really claim is our own works are our sins. So everything else is from God, you know? And once we start seeing that we're on the we're on the right path already, cuz you say that's right. If I have any of these good things, then I do. Everybody does, uh, those are all God given me those. So I give him glory and I, you know, I take credit for my sins anyway. So to be humble, we understand who we are and the relationship we have with God, irreverence produces pride and humility is produced by reverence. Speaker 1 00:21:18 Cuz reverence is like, that's God. And I'm not reverence towards God. We have to be submissive to his will because he's God, cuz as soon as we realize God, anything, he will, we say that that will be done. And as we start realizing what that means, that means we want to be submissive to his will in every aspect of our life. This is his will. I want to be submissive to his will. As soon as we know what his will is, we just say, oh, that that's what I want to do. I set my will, but we also have to be submissive to his Providence. And this is an important key to understand we're gonna get to it. But this applies in spades to the problem of suffering. Okay. So if we're gonna be reverent towards God, we submit to what he wills and we submit to Providence, which is how he's decided to order things and he didn't call anyone else up and say, how would you like me to run the universe today? Speaker 1 00:22:10 You know? Or during your lifetime or, or, or what do you think? How, how, what do you think about world events? How should I set this up? And the yet in implicitly we're temp and implicitly were tempted insofar as were not humble to think like what, you know, I can't believe this. Well, believe it, you know, he didn't call you up. He didn't call me up. He didn't, Hey, Hey, how should I run the universe today? You know, what do you think? No, it's not a, so now this is really important too. So when he created the universe, he created a universe in which the primary good is gonna be love for. You know why? Because that's what a free will is given to us so that we can love the things we ought to love. He gave us a free will, but, but it's free. Speaker 1 00:22:57 This is another thing that people don't want to admit. And the reason they don't wanna admit, because it means it have to be take responsibility. And the more we meditate on how really dramatic it is to have a free will. The more humbled we ought to be, you know, when people are saying da, da, da, it's that when you're pointing at finger at me, there's three more point at you buddy. You know, cuz they wanna blame their parents or the society or whatever, instead of saying, and you know, for whatever their troubles or sufferings, instead of waiting a minute, you know, I have a free will. I'm responsible for things and we'll tie this together in a minute, but you can use your free will rightly or wrongly. God doesn't will directly will use it wrong. His intention is that PE creatures use their will correctly, but he permits it because he, that was his choice to make a universe where creatures had free will, where they could choose to love. Speaker 1 00:23:50 But if they can choose to love, they can choose not to love if they can choose to do right. They can choose to do wrong, but that's the whole drama. And he rewards the proper use of the will with me. Do you see what I mean? Getting into that. So, so I wanna read something here. It was in the order of God's Providence, that his creatures should have the power if they so chose not to respond to his designs in regard, but on the contrary to bring disorder into creation by the perverse use of their faculties. In other words, it is in the order of God's Providence, that disorder would be in the universe. If men chose that it should be. Speaker 1 00:24:32 And they did. That's why we talked about the fall. We made that choice in our parents and all of creation, uh, fell out of harmony at that moment. God didn't will it and he'd permit it. But because he permitted, he also permitted all the consequences that fall from it. Like he like sometimes, you know, when you ask people this and I've done this before, when I drop a pen, uh, like that, why did that pen just drop and hit the table? And people start talking about gravity, cuz you let go. And all those things are true. But at the, ultimately underneath all that, what's the, what's the foundational reality cuz God wills it or it wouldn't go like that. If he didn't, it's sit up there just like this. When I let go, you know, like some strange magic trick, but he willed it. It's the same thing. Speaker 1 00:25:17 Like you tell people, if somebody comes up and punches me in the nose and it's a sin, I didn't do anything at all. I'm just standing here, randomly comes up and, and knocks me out. What didn't God will about that. There's only one thing God didn't will in that whole thing. It's the sin and the will of that guy. But he didn't just stop the fist. And when the fist hit me, he didn't just say, oh, that's not gonna hurt you because he's sitting, do you see what I mean? He order, he ordered, he set up a Providence. It's the order of God's Providence. That disorder will be in the university of man chose. It should be. And he didn't will it, but he permitted it and therefore commits all that, permits all the consequences that flow from it and with sin comes strife and injustice. Speaker 1 00:26:02 So every one of us has been born into world where the sinful actions of men determine a lot of what happens. A lot of it in the church, you know, we're caught and dragged into a system where disorder rains and it rains in our own setting aside the bless of Virgin, Mary, it rains in our hearts too. That's the whole drama of our life is to try to bring order out of the disorder. And we can only do that with God. But we are bound by being born children of Adam, into a system like this to have to endure buffets and disorder. It can't be escaped. All these weird political systems that promise kingdom of heaven on earth and peace and harmony. None of them work. There's only one solution it's Christ or chaos. There's, there's absolutely nothing in between Christ or chaos. And the reason it took so long to get to chaos right here is because our ancestors were brought out of their pagan, chaos, you know, Mozart doesn't just happen. Speaker 1 00:27:02 And all of us that are Germans sitting at this table, all you have to do is read what the Romans with tats, when he is writing about what the Teton tribes were like. And it's like a complete absolute Sodo medical nightmare. So that's why England and Germany have somebody who brought some sodomy, cuz they're going back to their stuff and they, they revolted and they they've thrown away. God. And here we are again, but it wasn't just like Kapo. If you look at what it was like when St Bonafos came from England and hit the German people and you know, before he gets chopped to death by the Saxon, with the wares, you know, his own, you know, people, if you look at what St Bonis was up against, and then you look at Mozart, that was a lot of prayer and discipline suffering and those people became great. Speaker 1 00:27:48 And now they're a nightmare. And you can say that about every tribe. Um, just cuz a lot of us are German, German ancestry here. You can just pick any one of them. Civilization doesn't just happen. So everything going on we've been spending as it were, we've been just all the, the, this great effort put in by the saints and our ancestors to crawl their way out of that nightmare of paganism. And then we think, and we're standing up here on this mountain that was built by them. And all we've been doing is like drunken clowns, chopping everything down. And here we are, again, you know, only this time we're going down, you know, cuz it was one thing to be a pagan and not cook Christ. It's another thing to be a pagan that does know Christ cuz the Neo pagan is a way more deadly thing. Speaker 1 00:28:30 That's what our Lord is talking about when he talks about seven worse devils, cuz it was swept, clean St. Bonafos in the saints that helped hit 'em and then you have the revolt in the 15 hundreds and uh, where so many of the priests, just like these priests nowadays wanna sleep around and they take off things, just start collapsing, collapsing, collapse, and collapsing. And here we are, but Mozart didn't just happen. You know, that's not what the Romans were like encountering and you could do it for any tribe. I'm just using it. Cuz most of us are, have a lot of German in us. Okay. So anyway, in the actual order of things I read from father lean, the actual order of things, wrongdoing, injustice, tyranny, and persecution of the good are in the order of Providence. I wanna read that again, cuz we need to remember this in the actual order of things, wrongdoing, injustice, tyranny, and persecution of the good are in the order of Providence. Speaker 1 00:29:28 We are by nature, children of a fallen race in a fallen world and we're subject to the consequences of the fall. And that's why I talked about it in the beginning. And so all of us are degrees of air and that's the whole thing to draw it out. When you're a little kid going to the catechism, your parents trying to train you up. If you have proper schooling, which, uh, most of the schooling right now, I think is schooling advice and not virtue, but proper schooling starts lifting people up out of this kind of chaos since this such an important question. And I have stuff in the Bible here. So cuz it comes up. Okay. So where there's air there're necessarily mistakes, suffering conflict and wand of harmony. It can't be helped. That's how it is. I mean, in fact this is why we need infallible church and why it's such a corruption of the right order of things for the people, with their callers on not to give people the truth and nothing but the truth and not cut any corners, no matter how painful it might be to hear it because the truth is gonna set us free. Speaker 1 00:30:33 Our Lord himself tells us this and, and that doesn't mean we get to cut any corners and that's all you see from Theon down right now. You just wanna pull your hair out like this isn't complicated. We already know what our Lord taught. Who are you? It's not your church. Speaker 1 00:30:49 God doesn't will sin, but he will. That, that condition of, of things in which sin is possible. And therefore the disorder that arises if sin becomes a fact is in the order of its Providence, the reign of sin means the reign of injustice. Whoever exists under the reign of sin is necessarily involved in a system where wrongdoing, predominates, where age much suffer from the effects of that wrongdoing. In other words, it is the law of things as they actually are, that we must continually suffer from others. It is the condition of our being that we should be the victims of others' abuse of their free will. It begun, belongs to our position that our desires and inclination should be continually thwarted. We should be at the mercy of circumstances. And it's our duty to bear that without resentment and without rebellion. Speaker 1 00:31:38 Why that doesn't mean we don't, if there's stuff we can correct, we can correct. And if there's stuff we can protest against, we can protest and there's stuff we can change. We can change, but we still have to bear it without rebellion and without resentment, because if we rebel and resent, we're saying at least in our hearts, well, this isn't due to me as if I am in the condition that Adam and evil in when they werere, I'm not an original justice. And by the way, it doesn't belong to me because everyone is saying at this table is a sinner and everyone that lives, if we have say we have no sin in us, we are liars. That's what St. John tells us in first, John and all Sinon falled short of the glory of God, our lady, that's why she's called our hated nature. Speaker 1 00:32:21 Solitary boast by the poets because he left her out of it. Cuz she's the newie by the way, this there's, this is something when you're with a Bible Christian, it's actually pretty easy to explain to 'em they'll be astonished by it, maybe. Uh, but yeah, if you do it in the right way and you can just point out to me do the same thing that the whole trend, uh, in salvation history is from the promise of fulfillment from lesser to the greater Vil agree, cuz that's scriptural, you know, and there you can go, uh, Hebrews 10, one and 86 and I'm not gonna quote go until, but you can point out if we say, uh, you know, Adam was made from unfall on earth. If the earth hadn't fallen, it wasn't stain by sin. And that's what Adam's body was made out of. And then God breathed into that body imortal soul. Speaker 1 00:33:06 And if you say that our ladies is sinner, then what you're saying is that Adam had a privilege. Our Lord doesn't cuz he body was made from sinful matter. You know? And anybody says that as far as I'm concerned, it's not only not a Christian they're bla smear, cuz they're putting at above our Lord. And I think, and I had this with Bible Christians, if you I'm, I'm going very fast at this, but I've had it. And if somebody's interested in the truth, they realize that has to be true because anybody that really loves the Lord realize he's the Lord. And what, what you're dealing with is not people of bad will sometimes you're people of bad catechesis. That's not the same thing at all. Being wrong is one thing, but being wrong when you're willfully wrong is a whole different thing, but we're in this thing. Speaker 1 00:33:49 So there's gonna be air. Anyway, the moment we feel resentment at anything painful, that happens to us as a result of the actions of men or things that that minute will resentful against God's Providence. This is the key to suffering right here because the suffering is part of God's Providence. Now it has a deeper meaning, but we have to see this right away. It has other meaning God, what we're doing, if we are mad at the action of men are things that hurt us. What we're really doing is, and I'm not talking, it doesn't hurt. Of course it hurts is we're rebelling against God's determination to create free beings because this is a consequence of that. Do you see, that's why we're started with the fall. If there's any interrupt me, if this doesn't make sense, you know, cuz I'm I'm talking, but okay. So then we're not being humble. Speaker 1 00:34:38 We're pretending that we're something we're not cuz we're fall and we've added to the chaos ourselves and we're pretending like we're the only person, you know, why shouldn't everything be fair? Well, excuse me, where did you get that idea? Are you Adam before the fall? No, you're not then resign and join the rest of fall and mankind in that way. So even if we've never done anything wrong, which is ridiculous, we shouldn't claim that we're exempt from the suffering. Humility is nothing more than a practical determination to abide in our, our rightful position. And that means we're members of a fallen race and we're all in it together. We don't want to contribute to the thing, but we're in it. Do you see? So we should follow our Lord's example and what's our Lord's example. So this is what I wanna talk about our Lord and I'll price. Speaker 1 00:35:29 You know, I, but let's talk about our Lord a little bit here. Now look at our Lord. When our Lord becomes, man, he chooses to become a man. I know that sounds like redundant, but he chooses to become man and that's something else. So he comes into this position, but he chooses freely chooses to take our condition. He didn't ch he did not sin, but you didn't complain about the consequences of sin. You know? So when he is born, he's just a peanut, you know, he has to get, he gets circumcised, cuz he's a Jew. Why that, you know, he doesn't need to, you know, but that's that's it. But then they have to flee to Egypt. Well, he, he didn't say, well I'm God and we're gonna do miracles and we're gonna go zipping over to, you know, they go to the worst place and how did they go there? Speaker 1 00:36:13 They fled, he didn't do miracles to get over there. St. Joseph had to take our lady and they had to flee at night. He didn't get to steal himself out of the conditions of men. When they came back, the, the different things, everything he goes through, he doesn't deal. So he holds himself. So he doesn't, and he's given us the example. I became a man he's given us the perfect example. If no, he doesn't, he hasn't done anything wrong. He hasn't, he's coming to give us the example in that way. He says, uh, we should take, he does it without resentment and look at the treatment. He gets at the hands of everyone and we'll, we can look at him for an example and I will develop that more later, but anybody that can look in his own heart, doesn't have to look any farther than that. Speaker 1 00:36:56 That even if, even if you don't look seeing a sin right there, which I hope you don't, you can still see tendencies towards it and maybe disordered passions, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And uh, until a person's in a transforming union, which hopefully we all get there in this life. Uh, but until one end there it is. So it's our sinfulness that lends us this tendency to try to exempt ourselves from suffering because we're thinking it's not fair. Why should I do this? I, I am here now. What's the purpose of it. So I want to do this. Oh, I wanna say one more else. The more just we are, the more we're gonna suffer, because if you're in an unjust unbalanced, evil world, that's rejected truth. And you're trying to be just, and, and striving to ho this and follow the truth. The more you do that, the more iJust the world is, the more you're gonna go cross the grain of everything and everyone. And so the more you'll resemble our Lord, which is the more you'll get that kind of treatment. Speaker 1 00:38:00 So we have to expect that. So this is why we have to expect it. We can't rebel against it. Well, I mean we shouldn't, and if we do, we, we need to repent and go back and catch ourselves. And, and, and, but what, what should we do in those moments? Wait a minute, there's a whole series of things that I'm doing now in this book. Why must I suffer? We'll go through those reasons. I'm just gonna suggest some of 'em right now. First off, I have reparation for my own sins and disorder. I've brought into the world. I have to make reparation cuz I'm not our lady and I'm our Lord and I have done it. And so in the first place I'm making reparation like that. I'm not putting these in a, in a moral order, I'm just doing it in the order. So that's one, another place is all this suffering is meritorious. Speaker 1 00:38:49 So by suffering correctly, as it were by taking up my cross and follow the Lord, and this is what I wanna talk specifically more about, you know, by doing that and imitating our Lord I'm meriting. So I'm growing in holiness in the third place. I'm getting out of purgatory time because insofar as that's purify me. So God has used the cross. That is the mystery of the cross. The cross is actually the key to everything. It's a huge, huge, huge error to think that, oh, as I become holy, it becomes more like, you know, skip through the Floris bone kisses at squirrels or something. That's not how it is at all. One can carry a have cross that God is gonna give you Aros, but you have, you know, so you're doing it. And it's also, since we're all in it together, we're helping in our, in the way that God wants wills for us. Speaker 1 00:39:44 In our particular role in the mystical body, we're helping advance the MIS of the mystical body, which is to do Christ's work through time. And so we're, we're performing in some minuscule way, our role and imitation of Christ. And so that suffering is helping other members somewhere in some way. So if I'm suffering here, it can take something off somebody there. And this is a great mystery that we can't see. Sometimes people, sometimes people actually know for whom they're suffering and that, that does happen for the most part in this life. One shouldn't go questioning into those things, cuz you're gonna probably get an answer, but it's probably gonna be from the dude with horns and you won't know it. This is not a good thing to look for. Mystical answers. If heaven wants to know something mystical, heaven will let you know and give you a director that can sort through that. Speaker 1 00:40:36 But you just sit here and say, no, this is what God is willing for me cuz it's part of his Providence. Oh, it doesn't mean we don't pray to get rid of it. We have our Lord's example. You know, if it's your will take this cross from me, but not my will, your will be done. And as long as that's his will, we want to keep bearing that with equanimity. Now we're not going to be able to, if it's a significant cross. So we that, but what is that doing? That is teaching us humility too. Cuz we realize I actually can't do this. And so we start inviting our Lord more and more into our hearts. So the suffering also helps us become humble, which is where we started in this little part. But it starts making us become humble and it gives us a greater reverence towards God because we start really more and more that wow. When I get right down to it, he's God and what do I have to offer <laugh> you know? And uh, and it really starts giving a clarity to someone that, that Speaker 2 00:41:32 Wasn't there before. Even though they think they had it figured out, they realize, well, I didn't have anything figured out almost. It just keeps doing Speaker 1 00:41:38 That. And it goes in Speaker 2 00:41:39 Layers. You know, the pride goes away in layers cuz you know, there we are. Speaker 1 00:41:44 So, but Speaker 2 00:41:45 The more, the more just we are, the more injustice we're we're going to endure. Don't think that God's mad at us because of that. You notice none of this has said, I've said nothing about God's anger cuz that's not what we're talking about. Speaker 1 00:41:59 There's different kinds of suffering. Of course there's stuff where, you know like, okay, if you got drunk the hangover, oh that's your problem. You know, we can understand that that's not a secret, but suffering that that's part of the con Speaker 2 00:42:11 Natural consequences of things. Speaker 1 00:42:13 And we shouldn't complain because we drank too much. But uh, a lot of suffering just seems to come into our life. Speaker 2 00:42:19 That's clearly something that God in some way is willing or permitting.