Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:01 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:01 Well, let's start with today is for the most part, a long quote with some editing and paraphrasing from the work of father. Horace came in the center of Rome in year eight and 97 was really something unwillingly and in fear the bishops and other clergy were gathered together by the pope's orders, but pop Stephen as seventh had commanded that someone even more important attend the Senate. He had commanded that Formosa is attend the Senate. Okay, so who is foremost well from us as had been the pulp from October eight 91 until April of eight 96 and pop Stephen commanded that for most is be present for the Senate even though he'd been dead for nine months. So the corpse had unfortunate up for most is still more or less entire, but of course half corrupt was dug up close and full pontifical vestments and placed in a seat before this assembly, a deacon was assigned to speak for the pope and answered the charges laid against him while Paul Stevens sat in the judgment seat. That's right, a dead pole, a dead pole dressed up or dug up, dressed up, propped up, and put on trial by the living pope.
Speaker 1 01:45 Now in order to understand the charges that Pope Steve and Nate against for Moses, we have to realize that the ancient tradition demanded that a bishop remain with his flock through thick and through thin, and he could only be translated, which means moving him from one diocese to another in the most exceptional circumstances. This tradition was obviously rooted in idea of spiritual fatherhood, something that used to be important in the church. Okay, so far, Moses was already the bishop of Porto. That's a diocese just outside of Rome. If you've ever flown into Rome, it's right there by the airport. He was a die. He was the bishop of the diocese or portal before he was elevated, the Sea of Saint Peter. And in fact, he had a vision, originally refused the honor of the papacy and it actually fled to the alter of his church from which he had to be dragged, still claiming under the altar cloth.
Speaker 1 02:42 Now with all that is background, let's return to the trial. So the central charge laid against for Moses was at the time of his election. He was already the bishop, a Pardot, and therefore his election. As Paul, as the Bishop of Rome was invalid. For most, this was found guilty as charged. Guess the Deacon didn't do such a hot Chubb answering, and so he's an Athema ticed and worse yet his ordinations were declared null and void. In other words, all the men that for Moses had ordained to the priesthood or consecrated as bishops were declared to have never been ordained. Of course, that means that none of their masses would have actually been masses. Now, the absolutions of confessional would actually absolved anybody of any sin. None of the NOI. Teens would've actually been annoying teens, et Cetera, et Cetera, et cetera. Then they began abusing from Moses's dead body who stripped of its sacred vestments putting lay clothing than they actually cut off the three fingers of his right hand that he used to use to impart the paperwork blessing while he was still alive by the order of Stephen.
Speaker 1 03:56 He was then buried in ground reserved for pilgrims. As his body was being dragged away for burial flesh, fresh blood was flowing out of its mouth on the pavement. Shortly thereafter, he was dug up again, and this time thrown into the Tibor. That's the river that flows through room, although some blame Pope Stephen for this, it seems more likely. This was done by treasure hunters looking for valuables. The night for Moses was thrown into the Tiber, a huge storm broke out over the city, and a tie began to flood. The corpse was carried along by the Russian river until it was finally thrown up onto the bank. Near Porto. Three days later for Moses appeared a v Innovision to a monk and asked him to go and bury his dead body. And the monk did. So what became a pope, Stephen, a few months later during insurrection, he was seized, loaded with chains, cast in a dungeon and strangled December of eight 97 Polk theater, the second caught wind of the burial of four.
Speaker 1 05:05 Moses in Porto see ordered the body be brought back to Rome with the greatest solemnity so that they were taped precessed with the singing of psalms and hymns torches in sense and so forth. He was closed once again in pontifical vestments brought into St Peter's basilica. We're in the presence of Pope Theater. Mass was said for, for Moses in his body was restored to his tomb. One Chronicle reports that he had it quote for most religious men of Rome. Close quote that when the body was brought to St Peter's, it was quote, reverentially saluted close quote by certain images of the saints. The next pope, John the ninth who ruled from January eight 98 to January 900 rehabilitated for Moses. He called two synods during which he condemned acts of city Stephen's centered in order they be burned. He forbid reorg nations of the bishops and the priests who had been ordained by formal assists but declared to be laymen by pub Stephen and reinstated them to their offices.
Speaker 0 06:11 Okay.
Speaker 1 06:14 Talking massive confusion, unbelievable scandal. Sometimes it's really hard to believe the things that the pope does or says. In the past few months, a lot of pies, people have understandably gotten pretty worked up over statements made by our Holy Father, Pope Francis, the secular press, the mainstream liberal Catholic press are having a heyday. As for the conservative Catholic commentators, they seem to be scattered all over the place, ranging from doing out now at verge, verbal gymnastics and cartwheels trying to explain phrases or explain them away to falling an apparent discouragement, anger or even accuses of Harrison modernism on other side
Speaker 1 07:08 and the priest had been hit with questions like, what are we as faithful Catholics to make of all this? How should we react or should we react at all? What if it gets worse? We started with a trial of, for Moses, the point being that whatever's going on these days, it doesn't even hold a candle to that nightmarish situation. One poor pope or another pope, nine months in the grave be dug up, dressed up, propped up on a chair, charged with crimes with a decent deacon, answering the charges and investments torn off his body, and he actually tried to tear his body to pieces, but it was too strong to dismember. The fingers are used for blessing cutoff and these tossed in a simple grave. It's unbelievable, but it didn't end there. It didn't end there. Pop Surgery as the third who reigned from nine oh four to nine 11 called another Roman Senate by using violence, bribery, threats of XL and other evils. Sergio as the third got the ramen clergy to once again agree that the holy orders conform or conferred by Polk for Moses were Nolan void.
Speaker 1 08:33 Now this is turning into a colossal mess because over time many men had been ordained to the priesthood or consecrated as vicious by the men who had been consecrated by for Moses. And so now these men's ordination were suddenly declared null and void as well, which of course implied that none of their masses had actually been masses. None of their sacramental absolutions had any effect that no one they had anointed had been anointed. You're talking about a mess now, many of them submitted to reorg nation, but as you can well imagine, the whole ecclesiastical world in Italy was in a tumultuous uproar. Little Giuseppe six pack doesn't know if it's priest is a priest. He doesn't know if as bishop is a Visha, he doesn't know if his dying grandmother had actually been anointed and the reason he doesn't know this is because the misbehaviors are the pope's.
Speaker 2 09:31 Okay.
Speaker 1 09:33 No. If the church was in a work of God, there is no way we could survive something like this. Pope Stephen the seventh and surges the third, we're certainly wrong and seriously wrong. Avowedly conferred ordination cannot be repeated. Wait a minute, pottery. Did you see those pops wrong? Yes, I did, but I thought that pops, we're infallible. They are uncertain conditions and we're going to cover that and a lot other details about papal teaching in later. Suman. The important thing today is to realize that not one of the pope's who are known or a belief to help false views on the conditions which make ordinations invalid. Ever tried to impose his ideas on the whole church.
Speaker 1 10:24 My friends starting with Saint Peter denied the Lord three times and fleeing from the cross. Throughout history, there have been crazy things both said and done by the pulps. We've weathered some pretty dreadful storms and we'll weather this one too. At least everyone that doesn't get panic and jump overboard. So supposedly appall says or does something that causes consternation. What should a faithful Catholic do? How should a faithful Catholic react and should he react at all? Well, the first thing you do is to keep everything in perspective and remain calm. Keep it in perspective. Let's just step back from the concrete situation for a minute and do a thought experiment. Imagine that you're on a boat and it's an a typhoon that's getting tossed around. He got with the wind, Holland, you have 70 foot seas and suddenly you learn, you're hanging on for dear life and suddenly learn up in the wheelhouse.
Speaker 1 11:24 You have a bunch of drunks having to forget a fist fight, what are you going to do? Are you gonna let go and jump overboard or are you going to keep hanging on for dear life? You might not appreciate what they're doing up there, but who cares? It's a storm you hang on, it's a no brainer. That's what you would do. Okay? Well, by the grace of God, we're in the Catholic church. That means we're already in the arc of salvation and this ship won't sink. It can't sink are we priest would have done in a long time ago. It just can't work like that. It's a work of God. So even if we had a bunch of characters go on crazy up in the wheelhouse, the very last thing we want to do is jump overboard. We just need to keep some perspective, remain calm and hang on.
Speaker 1 12:10 We need to keep in mind it's a salvation issue. In order to preserve our union with Christ, we actually preserve our union with our Holy Father, that Paul, we have to preserve our union with the local bishop. We have to preserve a union with our priest. That's divine hierarchy, that the hierarchy is a divine origin and that union is not based on how we feel about it. We have to have that union on Christ terms, not our terms. It might be crazy up there in the wheelhouse, but all we have to do is hang on. Okay, so if we've been working on our relationship with Christ, you've been seeing our rosary, keeping close to stack myths. If we're staying in the state of grace, then even when the storms blow and things seem crazy and outside, we should be able to preserve peace in our hearts.
Speaker 1 13:08 We should have an inner inner peace and a common. Our heart sets really important to keep inner peace. The Lord works in calm and peace. It's the devil that fishes in the stormy waters. Okay? So if the Paul says or does something that causes consternation, take a deep breath. Say a prayer man, calm, pray for the probe and relax. God's in charge. He has an abandoned us. He's not going to bend in us. That's just foundational. The first thing is we have to keep some perspective and remain call. Second, we also need to keep in mind the pope can't change anything that is essential to salvation. The pope doesn't have the power to change anything that is essential to salvation. As we've said later on, we'll take a detailed look at what the church teaches concerning the papacy, but for today it's sufficient to realize the pope can't change anything that is essential for salvation.
Speaker 1 14:12 He might make things pretty rough, but it won't be impossible. Stay on board. Third, keep closer to our lady during the passion of our Lord who stayed faithful at the foot of the cross until the bitter end wasn't. The pope was one exception, wasn't the apostles during the passion, the ones who stayed faithful to the bitter end. Who are those who stay close to our lady through it all? As we enter into the passion church, let's be very, very careful to stay close to our lady, say rosary or your scapular played practice. A true devotion to Mary of St Louis De Montfort are that of Saint Maximilian Colby and forth. Don't let yourself be scandalized. This is essential. Quick Review. So everybody knows what we're talking about here. What is scandal? Saint Thomas says it's scandal occurs whenever quote a man, if either intends by as evil warder deed to lead another man into sin, or if he does not.
Speaker 1 15:29 So intend when his deed is of such a nature as to lead another into sin. Close quote. So scandal is an action or a word which can lead another innocent. And being scandalized means allowing another's word or action to lead us into sin. Okay, let's take an example. Suppose a girl, where's it Bikinian public by wearing something like that? She is guilty of scandal. Since her deed is of such a nature to lead others into sin, whether she intends to or not. Okay? So she's guilty of scandal, but every single guy that sees here and allows himself to fond sin is guilty of being scandalized, right? So as soon as the man who is serious about saving his soul sees this girl, he'd have to quickly move his eyes in his mind's eyes away from her. Okay? So the same principles apply to things like words and behavior, the pope or any cleric.
Speaker 1 16:32 It's especially important. We don't allow ourselves to be scandalized by anything that pope says or does because this can very easily damage our faith or even cause us to lose the faith. So we need to be careful about that. We need to be also careful about what we see or think about the holy father because the fourth commandment applies here and sometimes people don't seem to recognize that just like it applies to your physical debt, it applies to the Holy Father. We have to honor him. We gotta be very careful what we read and listened to. A lot of what passes for Catholic commentary, frankly, is just ecclesiastical porn. And that's the nicest word I can think of it. Okay, it's quit reading that book or that magazine or that newspaper. Quit going to that website, quit listening to this or that person or this or that.
Speaker 1 17:24 Priest is preaching is not leading US closer to Christ, who's getting us riled up and fomenting anger, hatred in our heart against the holy father or against the church, need to pray for him and get busy reading things that will bring us closer to Christ in his mother in order to keep ourselves from being scanned. And we could take the advice that Saint Phillip nearer used to give to his direct and done now and he was alive during another time of very great Scanlon church. Saint Philip near used to tell his directories, I don't care what you read as long as the author's name begins with s t
Speaker 0 18:05 <inaudible>.
Speaker 1 18:06 Good advice. The inspired vices, Saint Paul in find it. Philippians chapter four is perfect here. Be Not anxious, but in everything by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving, let your petitions be known to God and the peace of God which surpasses all understanding will keep your minds and hearts in Christ Jesus. For the rest brethren, whatsoever things are true whatsoever, modest whatsoever, just whatsoever, wholly whatsoever, lovely sync on these things. That's the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1 18:56 He not anxious brethren whatsoever. Things are true whatsoever, modest, whatsoever, just whatsoever, wholly whatsoever. Lovely. Think on these things. One last thought on scandal. That great. Talk to the church. St Francis de sales says quote, well, those who give scandal are guilty of the spiritual equivalent of murder. Those who take scandal, who allow scandals to destroy their faith are guilty of spiritual suicide. Close quote. Well, those who give scandal are guilty of spiritual murder. Those who take scan of who allow scandals destroy their faith are guilty of spiritual suicide. Okay, so if we're getting too worked up, relax, don't worry. Go have a cold one. Totally serious. Christ has an abandoned us. We might have man in him, but he hasn't abandoned us. We might've been by allowing ourselves to get too discouraged and falling into spear by dawn and ourselves to become scandalized and jumping overboard and drowning in this terrible storm and the waves of apostasy, of hair, CF CISM and scandal instead of a contest. Them stay call. Keep your inner peace. Stay close to our lady. Don't let yourself be scandalized. Remember, the pope doesn't have the power to change anything essential to salvation. He can make things pretty rough, but it won't be impossible. Stay on board.
Speaker 0 20:32 Okay,
Speaker 1 20:35 let's close with some thoughtful comments written by frank Sheed during the terrible chaos falling the council prank sheet in the uttered by many, there is a failure to see Christ as the whole point so much in the daily running of the church. They find depressing the sermons. They say take no one deeper into the reality of God or man, this priest or that cares for nothing but money. The sick are neglected. The old are rejected. The hierarchy, no nothing of the emotional intellectual problems which are eating away at their people's face. The curious simply a bureaucracy using every trick to hold onto its power. As for the pope, it all adds up to the institutional church with so many wondering if their spiritual integrity will permit them to remain in it.
Speaker 1 21:44 But institutional Israel, the chosen people as a prophet short was even worse than the harshest critics think the Catholic church. Yet it never even occurred to the holiest to the Jews to leave it. They know that however evenly the administration behaved. Israel was still the people of God, so with the Church and administration is necessary if the church is to function, but Christ is the whole point of the functioning. We are not baptized into the hierarchy. We do not receive the cardinals sacramentally. We will not spend eternity in the beatific vision of the pope. Saint John Fisher could say in a public sermon if the pope will not reform the courier God will. A couple of years later, he laid his head on Henry, the ace block for papal supremacy fall to the same block by Saint Thomas Moore who spent his youth under the Borscht Pole. Alexander the sixth lived his early manhood under the Mindy Ci, Pope Leo the 10th and died per papal supremacy under climate. The seventh as time serving a pope as Rome had had. Christ is the point I myself admire the present pope. He's riding Nepal is six but even if I criticized as harshly as some do, even if success are proved to be as bad as some of those who have gone before, even if I sometimes find the church as I have to live in it, a pain in the neck, I should still say that nothing Appalshop could do or say would make me wish to leave church. Though I might well wish that he would
Speaker 1 23:51 Israel through its best periods as through its worst, preserve the truth of God's oneness in a world swarming with gods, that sense of God's majesty in a world sick with its own pride. So with the church under the worst administration say as bad as John The twelfths a thousand years ago who could still learn Christ truth still receive his life and the sacraments still be in union with him to the very limit of our willingness. Close quotes.
Speaker 1 24:38 Well, those who give scandal are guilty. The spiritual equivalent of murder, those who take scandal, who allow scandals to destroy their faith are guilty of spiritual suicide. In the criticisms uttered by many, there is a failure to see Christ as the whole point. We're not baptized into the hierarchy. We do not receive the cardinals sacramentally. We will not spend eternity in the beatific vision of the pope. Nothing a hope could do or say would make me wish to leave the church under the worst administration. We could still learn Christ truth still receive his life. Ms sacraments still be in union with him to the living limit of our willingness. Christ. This
Speaker 2 25:42 is the point. Christ is the point.
